In doing this, though they have become a neutered "feel-good" type of operation. They purposely have shunned anything or anyone that is the least bit "negative" or offends them by actually approaching them with deeper biblical Truth. They receive only 'milk' and have been deceived into thinking that they shouldn't be involved in the pressing issues affecting the church and our country. This has created a large group of people who are disconnected from what the Spirit of God is saying to the church today and highly vulnerable to following leader who becomes an idol for them. Warren, like every Christian is flawed, though he doesn't come clean, even when caught red-handed.
Warren had put this in print to his congregation: "Now let me say this really clearly: we support Proposition 8 -- and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8. I never support a candidate, but on moral issues I come out very clear." Warren then had the audacity to say this later" "During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never -- never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop. 8 was going," Warren told the CNN audience on Monday." Most recently Warren attempted to create reality (lie) concerning his previous endorsement and disown his endorsement of proposition 8 in California, which merely codified the fact that true marriage is only between a man and a woman. He had firmly endorsed the obvious biblical concept of marriage and was scourged by the rabid media and gay mafia and then changed his public stance and bent over to appease those whom he had offended. Warren is still an obvious compromiser who longs to appease as many haters of Christian, biblical principles as he can. His true religion is political correctness and obtaining "peace at any cost."
After RECENTLY ('09) hearing his Easter message I really thought that he had had a spiritual revival but now it is clear to me that it is more than possible for even the most prominent evangelical leader in the world, to easily say one thing during a sermon and then compromise the Gospel the next. We had previously called this movement "apostate" and after hearing Warren preach, I hoped that a true transformation was taking place. Warren preached and often referenced the Word, though historically, certain aspects of their teaching and their purposely neglecting the use of the scriptures as the major basis for preaching, teaching, exhorting, correcting and edifying the church now pervades most of the evangelical church because of bowing to the powerful influence of the 'Purpose Driven Church'. Certainly, biblical orthodoxy and obedience to Jesus and His Word varies from Christian to Christian and church to church and no one person or church is perfect. There was only One truly perfect Christian! In that Spirit I admit that my judgment of Rick Warren had been a bit harsh and that I had not heard many of his sermons. This morning (Easter Sunday, April '09), I heard a wonderful yet simple evangelical message preached by Warren in Spirit and in Truth! There are many aspects of his services and his informal approach to church that I appreciate and as long as our purpose is to love, follow and obey Jesus and His Word, we are pursuing the ultimate and correct purpose for our lives and for all of humanity. There still may be things that I disagree with Warren about but his sermon this morning was wonderful and highly evangelical. it certainly was the best that I have heard from Pastor Warren and I sense that what he preached is at the very center of his purpose, though I still question some of his motives and origin of 'purpose'. Is it possible that Warren has become re-focused upon Jesus and the power of His Word or is he still a half-baked compromiser? It is possible to preach the Gospel and embrace other erroneous ideas that don't line up with the Gospel or God's Word? Does his ability to sometimes preach a biblical sermon, actually make such a deft compromiser even more dangerous to those who are influenced by him? To be above correction is to be ignorant and disobedient of God's word.
First of all, I need to make it clear that I am NOT condemning Warren or anyone who goes to one of these churches. I know that most of them preach at least the basic Gospel (periodically) and that there are some born-again Christians in these churches (though certainly immature Christians not having good discernment). I am addressing error and un-biblical doctrines and practices that will or have already damaged the body of Christ and so compromise the Gospel that it becomes irrelevant, hollow, and counterfeit. The major concern with this movement is whether it is truly led by God and directed by His Holy Spirit, or is it man's creation?
Rick Warren reinterpreting scripture to fit his desired outcome:
A much more concerning side to Warren's doctrines are coming to light now, which at least one author has documented in a book, 'Decieved on Purpose' (2004):
"Christian author Warren Smith's book "Deceived on Purpose" (2004) warns about the serious New Age implications of Pastor Rick Warren's book "The Purpose Driven Life".
Smith contends that Crystal Cathedral Pastor and New Age sympathizer Robert Schuller has had a great influence on Rick Warren's teachings and that Schuller's influence can be found throughout Rick Warren's book "The Purpose-Driven Life". Smith writes, "The more I read Robert Schuller, the more I was shocked at how so many of Rick Warren's thoughts, ideas, references, words, terms, phrases, and quotes in 'The Purpose-Driven Life' seemed to be inspired by Schuller's writings and teachings"...
Smith takes the reader into the inner workings of today's evangelical world as he explores the questionable interconnections of several of its top leaders. As Rick Warren goes worldwide with his purpose-driven Global Peace Plan, Smith presents an in-depth examination of this mega-church pastor's spiritual agenda. He explains how Rick Warren's Peace Plan could eventually merge with the New Age Peace Plan that is being similarly presented by key New Age leaders."
Whatever is of the flesh will not profit anyone spiritually though it may make them feel religiously "happy" and "satisfied." I am NOT saying that God is not at work in those churches or that they are all apostate- heavens no! Error can be found in every church but those who discern it are called to expose it and call people to repentance. There are many born-again Christians in this movement and most of what they preach and practice is biblical and acceptable because they teach and preach basic salvation and at least the 'milk' of the Word. Some of these seeker churches are led by ministers who filter out the bad concepts and and utilize only that which is godly and biblical. The major problem with this movement is the radical, man contrived philosophies that seem to drive it and compromise the Gospel in the most subtle of ways. It is highly ecumenical and preaches an un-biblical version of non-judgmentalism. (Yes, I am making judgments- I believe them to be righteous and necessary).
The "Church Growth Movement, as touted in the book called "The Purpose Driven Life," is the current deceptive bandwagon to assail the church. At the very core of their agenda is empire building and self-glorification. They offer little spiritual and Biblical depth to help build the lives of new disciples. Much of their "plan" revolves around ejecting "traditional styles" and incorporating popular, worldly styles that smack much more of entertainment than ministry. Like Willow Creek, it is built upon MARKETING, and what appeals to the "unchurched." Is it built primarily upon our Lord Jesus Christ and His Word? " The basic Gospel is preached but is Warren's real "purpose" driven by his vain desire for "CHURCH GROWTH." (As long as the only purpose is to love, obey, glorify Jesus and lead people to Him, God will grow His church! ) As long as they hey have sincere Christian passion and have not lost sight of Jesus and the power of His Word, which draws people and becomes infectious, they have then NOT created (man-made) a new religious system and formula that they think can replace genuine "spiritual revival and regeneration". If any Christian movement is primarily driven by the idol of "SUCCESS" and "NUMBERS," then they have become idolatrous. And just how is "spiritual success" now redefined by most savvy, trend-setting "church leaders"? NUMBERS NUMBERS NUMBERS... How many people go to your church???... Say the snobby churchmen and women. They are bowing to worldly idols (success, style, money) and attempting to justify it by pretending to do it all in the name of Jesus. In the process they water down the Gospel until it is nearly unrecognizable. They must proclaim God's Word and not fear offending seekers or they will not produce genuine Christians by abandoning the true Gospel and our Lord.
Certainly not everything they espouse is wrong, and I'm sure that some godly leaders have filtered out the wrong stuff, but their motivation puts the proverbial spiritual cart before the horse and does almost anything not to offend "seekers." In BOWING to seekers, they seek to create an appealing "style" and an "atmosphere" that reeks of slick, carnal manipulation. Is it Jesus focused and driven and Spirit-led or merely another man-made attempt (FORMULA) to get converts and "grow their church." Jesus says that we are to make genuine disciples and that He will grow His true church.
God's Truth, His Presence; the simplicity, beauty, and power of following and abiding IN Jesus, has been lost in most churches. The precious Oil of the Holy Ghost is in great shortage in the church because people are forsaking Jesus and His marvelous Word and replacing Jesus with their own selfish agendas, formulas, schemes and idols! Half-baked, Spirit-less converts cannot go forth and make disciples as Jesus commands us to.
Jesus is seeking worshipers who really want to know Him, walk with Him, and worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. The true Gospel is simple and requires us to accept Him as little children, yet so powerful. We are compelled by the love of Jesus to spread His message and blow the trumpet of warning in the camp. In these last days, many born-again Christians are being confused and misled by various ploys of Satan. Many evangelicals have already accepted the politically correct paradigm (spirit of Antichrist) that the making of any kind of judgment is "unchristian" when it is absolutely necessary to make crucial spiritual discernments and cling to Jesus our Rock during these dangerous end-times.
Many are worshiping style, appearance, trends, and "success" instead of following, and adoring Jesus! They fear offending the un-churched and being accused of being too "negative" or "fundamentalist" and so many now preach and teach whatever tickles the ears of the masses. They are preaching and practicing a type of cultural Christianity the Apostle Paul warned us about ("having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof" 2 Timothy 3:5) that is hollow and phony. They are merely going through the motions, and are Christian in name only. Many of these create a "christianity" (what I call "churchianity") out of their own vain imaginations and mix it with all sorts of New Age philosophy and psychology. Many are superficial, materialistic, and worldly. They judge others and have fellowship on the basis of appearance, social standing, and personality (instead of true Christ-centered fellowship). Many unconsciously practice a neo-Calvinism in which they inwardly believe that they are better than others. They seek others of their own social niche and call it "Christian fellowship". Jesus called such superficial people hypocrites, and several other colorful names. In confrontative Christian love, we call the worst of these "Muppies," (Modern Urban Pharisees) "Stepford Christians," "cultural Christians, or "pseudo -evangelicals" who at best believe that maintaining the right pious, successful, "positive image" is most indicative of being a "Christian". The most flagrant of these are slick counterfeit Christians who are merely using Christianity as a front for their own selfish agendas. They create, represent and foster a cultural type of "christianity" that can sound like, and even look like godliness at times, but is void of the Holy Spirit and is starving for authentic application of God's Word.
Born-again Christians who proclaim God's Truth have long been routinely demonized in the world, and now, even pseudo-evangelicals are joining that vicious crowd against "fundamentalists" simply because we preach the Truth of the Word and are calling the church to repentance.
These cultural Christians (either immature or counterfeit) have accepted the enemy's phony accusations (political correctness) and characterizations made against true Bible-believers, as a militant apostasy (falling away from the Truth of the Gospel) assails Christendom. Has the "seeker" movement misled millions into believing that only an artificially saccharin, prissy, "positive only gospel" is acceptable, as if preaching the truth was demonic and negative? Granted, there are some fundamentalists who preach out of anger and hatred but has the "seeker movement" negatively affected the evangelical church by preaching a watered-down "gospel" designed not to offend seekers? They have created a more sensual and worldly performance oriented church. Instead of obeying the Words of Jesus concerning the need for the preaching of repentance and the necessity of dying to self, many ministries attempt instead to assuage seeker guilt and build up their "self-esteem". Unless they pass through the threshold of repentance, and receive Jesus as Savior, all else is pointless vanity. Most of the greater evangelical church is now compromising the Gospel or mixing it with all sorts of New Age concepts and psycho-babel under the guise of being "positive" at all costs in order to attract seekers. The modern "seeker" movement is predicated on "what can Jesus do for Me" rather than what must I do to know and follow Jesus. It is mostly a human-centered gospel, not primarily a Christ-centered one. A religious, humanist bandwagon effect has been created that is aggressively deceiving millions of Evangelicals. The "seeker" oriented, "Purpose Driven" church tends to preach a half-baked, worldly mixture that lures people into a slick pop movement that appeals to people's worldly senses and need to be a part of something big and "successful." We are now in the era of 'Club Church', in which the devil has gotten millions to flock to large religious machines that preach such a compromised, Spirit-less Gospel, as to be spiritually ineffectual and irrelevant concerning God's true plan and desire for us, especially in these end-times. The "seeker" driven, "purpose driven " church, is promarily driven by idolizing popular styles and trends, that pooh-pooh traditional, "negative" aspects of church (many of which had become cold and spiritless) such as preaching too much Truth that convicts, which rightly makes people feel uncomfortable. The devil loves to inoculate "seekers" with a religious mixture designed to soothe their spiritual aching to some degree, mostly by stimulating their senses and emotions while providing little effectual spiritual regeneration in Christ. Practically speaking, it employs worldly and compromised STYLES (developed through marketing ie: "what do non-Christians want to hear and experience?") over the SUBSTANCE of biblical Truth and spiritual worship.
Are there individual exceptions to be found in these mega-churches and purpose-driven-formula churches? Are there some in them who preach at least the basic Gospel and who love the Lord in those churches? The answer is yes. Just as there are a few truly born-again, evangelical Catholics, though they highly compromise the Gospel. God's direct Word to them all is to "come out of her my people," and to repent of erroneous beliefs and doctrines. Is it possible to be a born-again believer and yet embrace error and practice a mixture that does not please God? YES, and the best example is found in the New Testament when the Apostle Paul had to rebuke the Apostle Peter (to his face, in front of the congregation!) for preaching a mixture of dead Jewish religion and the Gospel, which was not pleasing to God at all. Read Galatians 2 for the details. If one like Peter could fall into such grave error and needed to be rebuked to his face in order to repent (his repentance and acceptance of Paul and his teachings are documented in 2 Peter 3:15, and 16) certainly every believer can fall into gross error, and also RECEIVE GOD'S MERCY, FORGIVENESS, AND RESTORATION
Warren's recent (8/08) self appointed role as presidential pundit/ moderator at Saddleback Church hosting Obama and McCain, does much more damage to the Evangelical church at large, than meets the eye. Star Parker discerns thatPastor Warren: (should) Stop politicizing religion, which he has been doing increasingly over the years, as his "fame" as a major seeker church leader has spread. These politicians eagerly use his influence to pander for votes by pretending to be pious or repentant about their sins and 'voila', both candidates are "approved" for the pickin' by The Purpose Driven Church star. Neither of these two candidates are righteous dudes by any stretch of the imagination but one of them (Obama) overtly believes in all sorts of evil that is completely antithetical to true Christian doctrine. Obama is farther left concerning abortion than anyone who ever ran for president. That evil policy alone should prevent any TRUE Christian from voting for him, and Warren should be ashamed at providing cover and a platform for him to pose as a good man- one whom Christians could possibly trust. I am not a big fan of McCain's either but at least he is pro-life. Christians can't look for moral perfection in candidates but they must vote for the best qualified person with character and a track record that comes the closest to Christian ideals. Making fun of Barbara Streisand on SNL is NOT a moral failing. Only those whose real religion is political correctness will view such a thing as being repulsive or sinful. Rick Warren, stick to preaching "Christianity for Dummies" and stay out of meddling in politics and world events. Your hubris is showing!
The "Church Growth" Movement puts the proverbial cart before the horse. It puts human (the flesh) concepts, ie: marketing strategies, worldly psychological philosophies, and worst of all, a man centered gospel instead of a truly Christ centered Gospel- ahead of the only Gospel. This is an IMAGE DRIVEN movement that basically delivers what the masses want: feel good religion. Easy believism that builds "self esteem," is NOT the true Gospel! Many of these churches are espousing a different Jesus than the One of the Bible. Jesus calls us to repentance and tells us the truth about ourselves in order that we may be cleansed and transformed by Him- not by Jungian psychology. One particular philosopher/ psychologist/ author named Scott Peck, has had a major influence upon this movement and the ungodliness of replacing biblical precepts with psychological concepts (or creating an ungodly mixture). Biblical Discernment Ministries says of Peck:"Although The Road Less Traveled is reminiscent of our Lord's words about the narrow road to life, Peck is clearly headed down the broad road to destruction. Peck is ecumenical, New Age, and anti-Church. His "road" leads us away from God, away from salvation, and away from the Bible. His theology clashes with Christianity at every crucial point; for the Christian, Peck's writings should be a road not traveled..." My experience with those inoculated with his brand of "christianity", is that they have a strong dis-like for "fundamentalist" Christians and biblical orthodoxy. John Ankerberg, rightly places Peck among the cavalcade of New Age/ occult gurus, like Matthew Fox, Alice Bailey, Barbara Marx Hubbard, Shirley MacLaine, David Spangler, and Robert Muller. Peck's writings are much more subtle than these others, which makes his writings that much more dangerous to the body of Christ. Though some "fundamentalists" certainly are too legalistic and superior in their interaction with others, Peck strives to carefully inoculate his readers with a disdain for ALL devout Bible believers without making a distinctions. A major effect of "Peckism" is to cause people to have a spiritual "allergy" to the preaching of any Word that convicts them. Peckists have been brainwashed to think that anything said that sounds "negative," is "judgmental" and "un-christlike". Many "evangelicals" have fallen prey to his subtle liberal propaganda that causes his followers to develop a New Age, "transcendant", "egalitarian" , "superior" form of "christianity". Peck's influence upon the modern "Church Growth Movement" is a virus. Hybels has generously quoted Peck. Jesus calls us to faith and trust IN HIM- not in some method or system contrived by man.
This movement is so bent to project a positive only gospel that it doesn't always preach the real Gospel. They worship a phony sense of 'positivism' and label true Bible believers as being "negative," "old-fashioned," "ignorant," and insensitive to "seekers."
I had a rather intense exchange with a high-roller from Willow Creek on the Ourchurch.com blog. He couldn't but help reveal his true disgust for "fundies" when at the end of his blogging, he called all of us who didn't get all of the new age churchin' ie: creeker, pdc, "cool church" flow, as being "Jesus Only" Christians who obviously just don't get their obviously superior approach to Christianity! He couldn't have given me a greater compliment nor confirm more exactly what is at the heart of the "creeker", "PDC" manifesto and that is Jesus PLUS something else. He was trying to insult and denigrate us but he merely ended up showing off his haughtiness and contempt for authentic Christians. They raise their vain, man-centered marketing ideas and anti-traditional mantras up to the same importantance level of knowing, following, loving and obeying God Almighty! Do you get the jist? Of course I'm a "Jesus only" Christian! For that fact, I am a 'Jesus is my Everything' Christian and if you don't understand that it's because you don't have enough of (or perhaps none at all) of God's Holy Spirit to illuminate your inner man to understand the real meaing of God's Word, which is the only thing to identify and counter such ignorance and spiritual depravity.
The real problem with the evangelical church was that it had largely become irrelevant because it had lost it's first love for Jesus and His Word! Most of the church had become more like a country club than a church. The evangelical church was floundering and failing. Enter the user-friendly, seeker concept based on marketing and image. I would rather see someone in a seeker church than in no church at all. While attending Willow Creek a few Sundays, I was blessed by two of the associate pastors messages, which were Spirit-led. God can operate in almost any place as long as the vessel is available, sincere, and desiring to please God. Now, when I heard Hybels "preach" that was an entirely different experience, as it became clear to me that his agenda was a psychologized social gospel- though he certainly paid some lip-service to the real one.
Paul Proctor recognizes a much more dangerous "consensus" building process in the "Church Growth Movement." It's leaders are utilizing the 'Hegelian Dialectic' (perhaps unknowingly?) to achieve a type of religious socialism, where the desired outcome is a re-interpretation of the Gospel altogether:
"For the benefit of those who have not yet heard of the Hegelian Dialectic, let me briefly run through it as taught by Authority Research Center president, Dean Gotcher. The Hegelian Dialectic or "Consensus Process" is a 200 year-old, three-step process of "thesis, antithesis and synthesis", developed in the late 1700's by a german named Georg William Friedreich Hegel that results in what we now know as "group-think". It is a system Dean Gotcher calls "Praxis" that socialists have used for centuries to seduce, seize and control mass populations without warfare. It is also in full operation here in the United States under such names as: "Outcome Based Education", "Goals 2000", "Sustainable Development", "School To Work", "DARE" and many more. It's all about embracing "tolerance, diversity and unity" for The New World Order. To put it in layman's terms; it's brainwashing.
Here's how it works: A group gathers, and has agreed beforehand that each in attendance will ultimately surrender his or her own personal position on any given issue to the will or "consensus" of the group after *processing to consensus* through dialog. In a Christian setting, the presupposition is that the group's will determines "the will of God". The group's "facilitator", whoever that may be, mediates between sides, be they "good and evil", "for and against", "republican and democrat", "liberal and conservative", etc., whatever the case may be, often instigating heated confrontations between the opposing sides for the purpose of suggesting compromise as the perfect solution to restore and maintain the peace and the relationships of everyone involved. The resulting outcome or "consensus" is then re-introduced if necessary, at the next meeting for more "Praxis", more dialog and more compromise until another "consensus" is reached. Then the "process" repeats all over again.....and again....and again until the facilitator's desired outcome is achieved. Over time, the convictions and concerns anyone may have had originally are processed away beyond recognition or relevance leaving one and all to accept the facilitator's pre-determined outcome as the consensus of the group. It's no longer a question of what is right or wrong, good or bad, lawful or unlawful, but rather HOW WE ALL FEEL ABOUT IT......no absolutes, no conscience, no convictions, no laws, no Constitution, no Bible and NO GOD!!!....only consensus....and a contrived consensus at that. Pretty slick huh? That's the Hegelian Dialectic.entire article: The People’s Church, Willow Creek, and the Church Growth Movement
The "church growth movement" has swept the greater Evangelical church by storm after voraciously consuming Rick Warren's book which is a MIXTURE of NEW AGE Christian philosophy MIXED with worldly business/marketing strategies, pre-existing Kingdom Theology/ positive-gospel-only Shullerism, Willow Creek seekerism, and a major dose of ecumenism. Called "The Purpose Driven Life," it is the most subtlely disturbing mixture to infect Christendom. They eroneously, ignorantly, and arrogantly claim to be "BUILDING THE KINGDOM OF GOD," when their deepest motive is to build THEIR OWN KINGDOMS by increasing their numbers. It is particularly dangerous and toxic because it MIXES in some Christian truths with twisted, worldly doctrines that completely changes THEIR focus from devout, and biblical Christianity to an idolatrous, and compromised MIXTURE that IS NOT PLEASING TO GOD AT ALL! They are worshipping STYLE over the SUBSTANCE of Jesus and His rich, transforming Word. They have forsaken the true power of the Gospel for a contrived, MAN-MADE concoction- all for the purpose of being more appealing to the masses!
Just when you think that this movement has been thoroughly established, a much more devious strain of apostasy springs forth from within it. The "Emergent Church," (with the ultimate goal of joining apostate "churches" under a giant umbrella, headed by the pope!) is the ultimate attack upon genuine Christianity with a mission to create a world-wide amalgamation of every kind of "christian' church, whether it embraces the scriptures and their original meaning let alone preaches the Truth of the Gospel. What is truly "emerging", is the one world religion of the Antichrist:
The church was already floundering spiritually because most have forsaken Jesus and His Word, and have now been handed over to those who will tickle their ears with what they want to hear. Most leading Evangelicals are singing the book's praises and are busy radically, and unrighteously changing the structures, motivations, focus, and practices of their churches. Satan knows that Evangelicalism was due for a major "change" and he was more than happy to inspire a seductive MIXTURE that takes advantage of the church's general proclivity to indulge in POP MOVEMENTS, AFFLUENCE AND IDOLATRY. Satan is gleeful at the prospect of spreading and inoculating "converts" with a completely compromised, pseudo-gospel, that prevents many from knowing the real Jesus and His transforming power. The church has badly needed to repent of her sins and seek Jesus alone- instead they are plowing headlong into idolatry of "numbers" and "success." SUCCESS, and POPULARITY as confirmed by "GROWTH" is everything now in the greater Evangelical church. They have openly accepted the erroneous, MAN-MADE doctrine that assumes that church growth means that they must be obeying God and "receiving God's blessing!" HOW ARROGANT AND SHALLOW! REPENT OF THIS APOSTASY BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE CHURCH!
Let's focus on just one of Obama's evil policies, though there are dozens more we should consider.
Barack Obama is opposed to any and all restrictions on the killing of unborn children and has pledged to work against the few that remain. In fact, as a state legislator in Illinois, he pushed a law that would require the killing of babies born alive after unsuccessful abortions. You know he will also open the floodgates to the use of U.S. taxpayer dollars to fund abortion overseas through groups like Planned Parenthood and agencies such as the United Nations Population Fund. You should note the U.N. supports forced abortions and sterilizations in China. He has even promised to sign into law the Freedom of Choice Act, which would make illegal even peaceful efforts to persuade mothers from aborting their babies. In essence, Obama holds and has pledged to enforce, a radical pro-abortion position that will curtail free speech, freedom of religion and ensure that many more innocent lives will be destroyed.
I call that evil.
Poor Warren is paying for his bad decision from both sides of the spectrum as the authentic, Bible-believing evangelicals are appalled at his participation in Obama's innauguration, and the gay mafia/ fascist/marxist leftists (masquerading as "liberals") are ready to practically lynch him. Certainly they have done the next worse thing, which is to smear him and assassinate his character, simply because he does not agree with institutionalizing "gay marriage" aka: SODOMY! These sodomites and their leftist comrades, are now doing to our country what they do to each other.
How about taking a stronger stand on infanticide as well Rick? Maybe Pastor Warren will wake up as to just what time we are in and then help lead American Christians to take a stand against in-your-face, evil sodomite bullies (a minority segment of our society) taking power and hatefully suppressing, discriminating and destroying Christians simply because we don't agree with their perversities and their nazi-like behaviors! We still have the right in America to tell the truth.
